tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post1072330296058865738..comments2024-01-06T10:36:04.084-05:00Comments on A Commonplace Blog: The most overrated novel everD. G. Myershttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10659136455045567825noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-79864499453335158052013-12-14T14:06:30.668-05:002013-12-14T14:06:30.668-05:00Seriously! Beloved is The Greatest American Novel ...Seriously! Beloved is The Greatest American Novel of the 20th century. Maybe you should go read it again.Damiannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-86138079928359761502013-06-15T19:41:37.895-04:002013-06-15T19:41:37.895-04:00This thread is old, but why not let it go on. Myer...This thread is old, but why not let it go on. Myers' article was well-written, well-taken, and well-defended. He was bound to get a lot of guff for criticizing an author whose ascendancy on a fairly arbitrary list was explained (by A.O. Scott) by the fact that she had been included in more college curricula than any living author. Now, this inclusion is partly due to "extra-literary" reasons, and Myers' assumption is that ranking works should not be based on such reasons. <br /><br />He is correct. Further, he was bound to get flack for the hyperbolic title, but this is how journalists write titles, in case the reader is new to journalism. The most overrated book of the century is probably <i>Of Human Bondage</i>. The point is that Morrison's writing is often awkward, while Roth's flows like the Kreutzer Sonata played by David Oistrakh. This passage from <i>Beloved</i> shows a touch of clumsiness: <br /><br />"Counting on the stillness of her own soul, she had forgotten the other one: the soul of her baby girl. Who would have thought that a little old baby could harbor so much rage? Rutting among the stones under the eyes of the engraver's son was not enough. Not only did she have to live out her years in a house palsied by the baby's fury at having its throat cut, but those ten minutes she spent pressed up against dawn-colored stone studded with star chips, her knees wide open as the grave, were longer than life, more alive, more pulsating than the baby blood that soaked her fingers like oil" (5-6).<br /><br />The voice is nondescript, giving the character's thoughts, but not in the character's voice, which is fine. But the narrator's clipped style fails to establish an authorial presence. The writer has trouble with syntax: "Counting on.. she had forgotten" is ambiguous - counting or relying? - and the ambiguity weakens the passage. "Who would have thought..?" This appears to be the character's thoughts but is not in the character's voice. "Rutting <i>among</i> the stones..?" I have trouble with that image and its connection to the next sentence is unclear. It was not enough that she had to rut among (or on?) the stones, now she had to live in the palsied house. "Palsied house" is a poetic image, but also subjective... the house feels to her as if it's shaking. The trouble is that this type of subjectivity is not established by the rest of the passage - many of the character's feelings are flatly stated. "Dawn colored stone studded with star chips..." - just distracting in the last sentence saying how those ten minutes were more alive than the baby's blood. And overall this paragraph rambles: this final sentence does not in any way complete a question posed by the earlier part.<br /><br />Morrison is a good writer, but overrated; not everyone can tell the difference between good prose and indifferent prose. Myers can, and I thank him for the article and the site.Forshornnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-50133490049805752542011-06-02T18:59:28.929-04:002011-06-02T18:59:28.929-04:00I was given this book as part of World Book Day, t...I was given this book as part of World Book Day, together with Margaret Atwood's 'The Blind Assassin.' I remember a former (white) American work colleague gushing over it, so looked forward to reading it after Atwood's hugely enjoyable novel. Unfortunately, I'm having a hard time with it. It's just - boring. Both authors are new to me, but regarding Morrison, I feel it's a case of the Empress's New Clothes -stark naked in other words. Yes, she's completely overrated. Will skip the Oprah movie too.<br /><br />MAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-86259826055039473392010-11-15T00:56:11.549-05:002010-11-15T00:56:11.549-05:00Somewhat relevant: my essay (not specifically abou...Somewhat relevant: my essay (not specifically about Beloved): <a href="http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/2010/11/waltz-with-bashir-do-perpetrators-tell-better-stories-than-victims/" rel="nofollow">Do Perpetrators Tell Better Stories than Victims? </a><br /><br />About Beloved, I would describe it as interesting but unreadable. I like to regard it more as a meditation on history more than a story.rjnaglehttp://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-30879566971725068142009-10-27T23:53:55.761-04:002009-10-27T23:53:55.761-04:00“In the annals of comparative martyrology, she app...“In the annals of comparative martyrology, she appeared to suggest, the toll of the slave trade was ten times greater than the Nazi Holocaust.”<br /><br />And? As another person pointed out, the death toll of the transatlantic slave trade, which lasted hundreds of years, was indeed much higher than that of the Nazi Holocaust. If Morrison “suggested” this she was not incorrect. The real problem is that you even feel compelled to compare the two.<br /><br />“The novel is intended to be a monument, a permanent marker of memory and history; and this is the source of its failure. It is less mythic than typological; less a “story to pass on” than a dense allegory of racial suffering.”<br /><br />You really should clarify this. Are you saying that the program is flawed or that Morrison simply does not succeed at realizing the program? Surely you cannot mean the former since Ulysses, The Sound and the Fury, Invisible Man, Sentimental Education, In Search of Lost Time—in short, many great works of literature—adopt a similar program. You reveal a great deal about your bias in that last sentence. Why is it that an “allegory of racial suffering” cannot qualify as a “story to pass on”? Perhaps it’s not a story or myth that YOU would pass on. But judging by the way it has captured the American imagination, I would guess that there are quite a few people who feel that it demands to be passed on. <br /><br />“I cannot think of a worse prose writer who is praised for her language[.]”<br /><br />Bellow does come to mind. Updike perhaps. But they’re not women, of course. <br /><br />“In fiction anything is possible, but Morrison does nothing to devise the possibility.”<br /><br />You mean apart from writing a novel? <br /><br />“The odd spacing and lack of punctuation, the fragmented phrases, are little more than an attempt to defamiliarize what are, to be honest, scenes and images that have been familiar since the first photographs of Hitler’s death camps were published in the United States.” <br /><br />The reference to the Holocaust makes even less sense here when discussing representations of a historical event that predates it by hundreds of years. Morrison’s writing about the Middle Passage follows in the tradition of Equiano and slave narratives not pictorial representations of Hitler’s death camps—which brings us to the real problem with your critique. Any critic who uses Nazi Holocaust literature or European history as a framework for assessing the success or failure of Beloved clearly does not understand the primary tradition in which Ms. Morrison writes. Beloved is written in the tradition of slave narratives—which are, like the Negro Spirituals, a uniquely American genre—and African-American Modernism, from Toomer and Hurston to Ellison and Forrest. Your failure to take this into account represents a failure to meet Morrison on her own terms, indeed a failure to even understand on a very basic level Ms. Morrison's technique. You appear to be writing from ignorance—and not with the aplomb of Mr. Beckett. There’s nothing wrong with not liking Toni Morrison. But if you’re going to offer a critical analysis of her work, you should at least learn a thing or two about its literary context—and I don’t mean the works William Styron.Jnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-90876423838263991902009-10-27T16:43:31.821-04:002009-10-27T16:43:31.821-04:00Nicely put. Again, I can’t argue with it. Schola...Nicely put. Again, I can’t argue with it. Scholarly worthiness is a top-down manifestation, and rarely aligns with popular opinion -- but you said it better.<br /><br />I’d be interested in an overrated list though, like you did with your top 50. That would be edifying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-15892270738664273742009-10-27T09:59:04.697-04:002009-10-27T09:59:04.697-04:00We read critiques like this, drawn to the idea of ...We read critiques like this, drawn to the idea of a "most overrated novel ever." I read it, in part, to hear what it was you had to say, in discussing the novel. One thing I thought off base was that Morrison isn't a good prose writer. But you know, in a novel of 200 or so pages, it's easy to pull one line and pretend it's representative, or to fail to acknowledge how any lines gets and loses strength based on the lines around it. With that said, I can say I've always found Morrison's prose lively, engaging, and the kind of thing that falls into the class of Wideman and Faulkner. <br /><br />Whatever the case, the premises that you start your discussion with - both the idea of Beloved being overrated and the idea that the Pulitzer Prize and Nobel Prize were the result of outside pressure- are the kind of light weight thinking that your critique, however much I disagree with it, belies as a false. A way to catch people's attention who will praise you for taking on the system, as opposed to just appreciating what you say and then deciding to agree or not.dwaynehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05723378359160838743noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-21366626112583965672009-10-27T07:21:58.209-04:002009-10-27T07:21:58.209-04:00No conspiracy. To adapt something that Thoreau onc...No conspiracy. To adapt something that Thoreau once said: the head monkey in Cambridge puts on his hat, and all the little monkeys follow suit.D. G. Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659136455045567825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-71177867717821185062009-10-27T01:20:29.774-04:002009-10-27T01:20:29.774-04:00Ratings are static tools in my mind, and really of...Ratings are static tools in my mind, and really of no consequence when judging the true worth of something. About a year ago, ESPN 2 said that Derek Jeter was one of the most overrated players in sports. I'm a Yankees fan; maybe I'm sensitive. Stoker's Dracula was underrated until he was dead for a few decades, and now you can't buy a book without finding blood and fangs in it. I'm not big on vampires; maybe I'm sensitive here, too.<br /><br />My point is, the critique is good, and I won't argue with it -- but as ratings go, it'll be invalid by next month. Maybe this weekend, if Florida loses to Georgia, we'll reconsider what we think about #1. In the meantime, I'd like to know why Beloved is overrated. You've laid out the hows elegantly. Bravo. But you've dallied and feinted on the whys. I was with you as far as the forty-eight, but then the whole thing glazed over into a conspiracy worthy of Dan Brown, with a powerful few controlling the purse strings and opinions of all. Can you clear that up for me? It'll go a long way toward helping my understand.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-11715306549715129522009-10-26T16:16:47.009-04:002009-10-26T16:16:47.009-04:00You'll understand, I hope, if I, and the vast ...<i>You'll understand, I hope, if I, and the vast majority of the literary community disagree with you.</i><br /><br />Of course I do. But the agreement of the “vast majority” no more establishes the greatness of <i>Beloved</i>, although it makes it seem self-evident, than my opinion, as you point out, establishes its overratedness.D. G. Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659136455045567825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-28782441137512322332009-10-26T14:48:50.960-04:002009-10-26T14:48:50.960-04:00There is no harm in not appreciating or not connec...There is no harm in not appreciating or not connecting to the work of Toni Morrison. One's relationships to books or authors is entirely personal. Moreover, there are a great many people, including literary critics and scholars of letters who simply do not understand Toni Morrison's work, because of the language, the subject matter or both. You are among them.<br /><br />Your singular opinion that Beloved is the most highly overrated novel EVER does not make it so, any more than a passage in the novel describing the horrors of slaves in transport (or anything else in the novel) seeks to undermine the horrors of the holocaust as you seem to suggest in your essay. It doesn't even make sense to mention such an unsavory contest as Slavery vs. The Holocaust, chiefly because such comparisons are baseless. The two are not remotely related and are not comparable in reasoning, methodology, time span, or the number of lives taken, "Sixty million and more" being an accurate and probably sparing estimate of slavery-related deaths. Nevertheless, paying literary homage to slavery, does not demote or minimize The Holocaust, or vice versa.<br /><br />You're entitled to your opinion, of course. But it seems that your opinions of the novel are a little disingenuous. So much so,that present-day,the group of 48[self-described]black writers and intellectuals might call you a "hater"(colloquially, that is). You'll understand, I hope, if I, and the vast majority of the literary community disagree with you.ktfleminghttp://www.twitter.com/kt711noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-71955928532628534762009-10-26T13:00:09.148-04:002009-10-26T13:00:09.148-04:00Tayari Jones linked to my little essay on Beloved,...Tayari Jones <a href="http://www.tayarijones.com/blog/archives/2009/10/before_the_bee.html" rel="nofollow">linked</a> to my little essay on <i>Beloved</i>, saying: “Why, oh why, must people hate on Toni Morrison like this? Go leave a comment.”<br /><br />Before you leave a comment, then, please note that the essay is on the subject of a book (<i>Beloved</i>) and not a person (Toni Morrison) and that it is not an expression of “hate” but of literary criticism.D. G. Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659136455045567825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-86716807198753913292009-10-26T12:25:23.898-04:002009-10-26T12:25:23.898-04:00I must say that I resent the implication that her ...<i>I must say that I resent the implication that her Nobel Prize and other honors are somehow a reward for being a black woman.</i><br /><br />Me too. Only those implications came from the forty-eight who protested Morrison’s being passed over for the 1988 National Book Award and the <i>New York Times</i> front page, on the occasion of her Nobel Prize.<br /><br />My case against <i>Beloved</i>, you will observe, advances no such argument.D. G. Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659136455045567825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-7940147152505708512009-10-26T11:17:25.449-04:002009-10-26T11:17:25.449-04:00There is no novel as important to me as Beloved. P...There is no novel as important to me as Beloved. Period. There is no novelist more engaging to me as Toni Morrison.<br /><br />I must say that I resent the implication that her Nobel Prize and other honors are somehow a reward for being a black woman. It seems that when she is overlooked for prizes, race has nothing to do with it, but when she is rewarded, it is all because of race and gender.<br /><br />Toni Morrison is a great American writer who was given the Nobel Prize. Griping about this honor almost feels to me like celebrating that fact that Chicago didn't get the Olympics.<br /><br />I wonder if anyone ever speculated that Faulkner got the Nobel because he is a white man. I mean, certainly he would not have been given the prize were he NOT white, but that really doesn't explain why he got the award. <br /><br />This is not to suggest that Morrison's award if analogous. If the Nobel Committee, and the Pulitzer Committee, etc are handing out awards and accolades to writers just for being black, the rest of us didn't get our vouchers.<br /><br /><br />Ms. Morrison is a credit to us all--as Americans,as writers, as human beings. Let us celebrate her acheivements and let us celebrate the acknowledgement of the same.Tayari Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04511191027164211657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-21427276807667897822009-10-21T23:44:50.048-04:002009-10-21T23:44:50.048-04:00I tried to read Beloved when it was released, and ...I tried to read Beloved when it was released, and have feigned ignorance of the novel rather than share my initial impression of it. Which was "So this is what a sober Faulkner would have sounded like."<br /><br />As to the accuracy of that, I have no idea. But not wanting to revisit the book to see how wrong (or even possibly right) I was, demonstrates how strong the aversion to such a experience can be.Dwighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13688525659034403580noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-20956421529583209332009-10-21T11:46:15.252-04:002009-10-21T11:46:15.252-04:00I completely agree that Beloved is highly over-rat...I completely agree that Beloved is highly over-rated, maybe not the most over-rated ever.Cara Powershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15629469295992958988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-17329339818437385952009-10-21T08:13:20.332-04:002009-10-21T08:13:20.332-04:00Dear Sir,
Thank you. It is refreshing amidst all...Dear Sir,<br /><br />Thank you. It is refreshing amidst all of the kowtowing to special interests to read something that runs counter to the stream.<br /><br />I have no opinion of the book having started, but never having completed it. And after my brief encounter, I have not been moved to pick the book back up. <br /><br />I'm always quick to point out, though, that "the fault. . .lies not in our stars, but in ourselves." My lack of connection with Ms. Morrison's work should not be seen (necessarily) as a comment on her work--it is far more probably that the fault (if any) can be found elsewhere.<br /><br />shalom,<br /><br />StevenStevenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15520240994034904255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-37367190803229218962009-10-21T05:21:57.849-04:002009-10-21T05:21:57.849-04:00I am aware of the historical source for the novel—...I am aware of the historical source for the novel—not much about Beloved has not been thoroughly explored by literary scholars—but the presence of the “basic theme” in actuality and in abolitionist literature does nothing to change a basic fact: namely, Styron’s very popular and successful novel had already intervened between the “antecedents” you name, Professor Burstein, and the writing of <i>Beloved</i>.<br /><br />Perhaps I ought not to have italicized Sophie’s Choice. For better or worse, Styron christened the category of moral experience for all time. It is this category that Sethe’s murder of her child belongs to.<br /><br />One thing more. Like Styron, Morrison does not undertake to write a direct narrative account of the murder. The theme, basically, is the sadness (sadness, not evil, Sethe insists) created by the mother’s guilt. That is the dramatic foreground; the murder is background.D. G. Myershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10659136455045567825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-79586154165940276872009-10-20T22:55:34.228-04:002009-10-20T22:55:34.228-04:00And, of course, there are the other antecedents--M...And, of course, there are the other antecedents--Medea in classical mythology (which was also in play in the abolitionist literature), the Jews at Masada...Miriamhttp://littleprofessor.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3458341.post-81242205728021399742009-10-20T21:29:18.569-04:002009-10-20T21:29:18.569-04:00The murder is less Sophie's Choice and more an...The murder is less <i>Sophie's Choice</i> and more <a href="http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=168" rel="nofollow">an actual murder</a>..., although the basic theme--the African-American mother driven to killing her own child--was already present in abolitionist literature like Elizabeth Barrett Browning's "The Runaway Slave at Pilgrim's Point" (1847).Miriamhttp://littleprofessor.typepad.comnoreply@blogger.com